Not unlike Nietzsche, Lovecraft also became famous postmortem which comes to show again and again how humanity appreciates its prominent individuals. In fact humanity feeds on its most sensitive individuals. It kills most of them prematurely to make saints of them postmortem. Humanity as a biological matrix perpetuates via generation, while the individuals serve only as the fuel for creating archetypes in the collective psyche. I think Lovecraft was a poisonous morsel for the greedy human beast.
Moving towards the aesthetic side of the Sinister, one form of art where the Sinister is quite heavily overrepresented – whether this is good or bad thing – is black metal music in its various forms. How do you personally see black metal and its role as part of the sinister culture? If there are bands that you think represent the Sinister in an authentic form, could you introduce some of them?
I see it on different levels with spheres of function. On one level it and anything like it that adopts satanic trappings only enforces the dualism of religiousness by amplifying the Devil as religious nutjobs made famous. On another I see it as an artform, another as a political mystical communion with sound, and another as something that holds evolution back by representing again and again stale idols. There are a number of bands that represent the Sinister for me for a variation of reasons, since I believe the Sinister to be many things even contradictory: Yuggothic Choir, Altar of Perversion, Cryptoterrestrials, Richard Moult, Triarri, Sol Evil, Dark Imperivm, Arvo Pärt. Essentially they all presence an identical feeling in me.
***
I
don't think it has one any more than pop music does. Any association
one makes with music is most likely a subjective one.
***
On a more general level, is there any art form that is in some way a particularly effective to transmit sinister ideas, emotions and visions to an experiencer?
Since
the very beginning of its existence (Venom, Bathory, Celtic Frost etc.)
black metal has mirrored different sides and shades of the Sinister.
What makes black metal interesting as a genre, is that there seems to be
no end to transmutation and evolution of it. In this black metal is
very different from - let's say - death metal, which has much less
variation. Black metal has, of course, its own Daddy O's who say that
all this variation is bad and that 'real black metal' should be done
this and that way. Blaah, blaah. Personally, I have never really cared
about the rules and guidelines set by preposterous Daddy O's and have
embraced black metal as a multifaceted and complex beast, which it, in
reality, is and should be.
As
for the bands representing the Sinister in an authentic form, well,
there are a number of bands which could be merited for doing that, but I
will limit myself to the best of the best:
The first of these is Cradle of Filth, who employed ONA symbols and mythos very succesfully on their debut album (The Principle of Evil Made Flesh, 1994). It is musically, lyrically and visually one of the finest black metal albums ever made.
The second is True Black Dawn, whose debut album (Blood for Satan, 2001) has such a strong Sinister Presence that it is almost unbearable. Same band's sophomore release (Boogeyman Unbound, 2005) is also great - kind a like Los Sin Nombre put to notes.
The third is Gnaw Their Tongues. Well, talking about putting Los Sin Nombre to notes, Gnaw Their Tongues has done a splendid job on that also. Basically, all their albums are worth to acquire.
The third is Gnaw Their Tongues. Well, talking about putting Los Sin Nombre to notes, Gnaw Their Tongues has done a splendid job on that also. Basically, all their albums are worth to acquire.
***
Black
Metal would be a field of Art which could be very fertile terrain for
the Sinister, but it has a problem: it spawns from the metal scene.
The coming of its so called second wave initially showed a possible
evolution and actual incarnation and implementation of truly Sinister
spirit and ways. The fury of this incarnation there in Northern
Europe and other places is renown, and there was at the time an
almost tight interaction with genuine Sinister organizations which
made hope for a good evolution. It instead begun to fall back in the
metal attitude, opting at most for the "philosophical"
branches of armchair satanism to be used just as a fitting topic to
go with the music and image, to later culminate in the notorious
current trend of religious/orthodox BM, fully inspired by nazarene
faith and implementing cabalistic symbols and religion, thus heavily
suffering a magian infection. All of this has clearly only the
apparence of being Sinister, while being fully magian in essence and
at the service of that degenerative force. This implies that most BM
musicians and listeners just act (when they do) in certain ways to
respond to the stereotype of the satanist the magian current imposes,
without having real Sinister Aims, but in most cases are just
metalheads dressing darker than usual but behaving just like other
metalers or average people, thinking more to drinking, taking drugs
and banging their heads than living a certain, Sinister way or aiding
Change via this potentially powerful Art Form. A few individuals in
the scene are trying to change this since some years and have let a
different culture seep into BM, promoting the Sinister via diffusion
of ONA MSS and siding openly with its current and methods. And
recently THEM is of course being introduced as well. Something seems
to be changing thanks to this, and an interest in the Sinister as we
intend it is arising. If things do grow in such a direction I will
see BM as a strong force in representing the Sinister Current, its
role could become relevant in countering the magian mindset a little
more. There is also a lot of people in that scene being very
intelligent and of high culture, unfortunately I saw many of them
fall in the mentioned traps and level themselves down through such
degenerating forms. THEM will aim at being a catalyst for this Change
through Mvimaedivm's Canor Sinistrum in the near future.
***
I don't really listen to Black Metal. But I don't see why the Sinister
can't be represented by it and a heavy representation just means a
concentration of love. Whether its an apt representation of the Sinister is
open to interpretation. Frankly I don't know. The feeling of Black Metal always
struck me as very cool. The artwork, christhate, antinomianism, and solidarity
of metalheads especially.
***
My view changed over the years. BM had a
serious role in attracting and introducing to the sinister but since a while I
see it decreasing – becoming corrupted and decaying to a fashion in a way that
it causes damage.
***
I think good angry metal is a great thing, it helps raise
up aggression, create an ambience. Music is a very powerful medium, it can
speak to people on a level that words alone cannot reach.
***
Though I do listen
to black metal bands, in no way I would limit the Sinister to that label only.
It’s really curious to me where goes the great amount of energy generated
during their concerts? I have felt it acts therapeutically upon the fans but if
concentrated and directed appropriately it could produce certain destructive
effects on the dominant Magian culture as well. Seems that energy is wasted
since the Magian are still there. Though along with the classics, I listen to
black metal, dark wave, gothic, pagan folk, military industrial, techno, dark
ambience etc., I have no favorite band or music. I can use certain musical
backgrounds when ritually summoning the Sinister, but I could hardly define
some style, band, or song as Sinister in itself, though the true inspiration
comes from the Sinister. I love listening to certain film soundtracks as well -
often better than the movies themselves.
On a more general level, is there any art form that is in some way a particularly effective to transmit sinister ideas, emotions and visions to an experiencer?
I
would put forward Narrative Magic as one long-term type of art form.
But it is the individual using the art form that makes it effective –
the art is just a necessary carrier. There are some truly incredible
artists, hundreds of thousands of them that could be said to have a
sinister element in depiction, style, feeling, intensity, content,
theme etc – but the Sinister strums different strings on each
instrument, it is a very personal thing as to what one identifies as
aesthetically sinister. Where some crave blood and demons and god
nailed to a cross, and I can appreciate those forms myself,
spiritually I see that as quite ordinary, shallow, and trite. The
Sinister often doesn't get planned, it just occurs.
***
I
have seen several people do it with writing, drawing, music,
painting, it simply is dependent upon the medium an individual uses.
***
As far as art-forms, I have numerous ideas. I do not believe that any means of transmission is as important as the direct writing of Magickal treatises. Art may “point the way,” but the teachers still must teach. As far as art, Lovecraft did, indeed, capture the most salient elements of Black Magick. The Inhumanness of The Old Ones, the extra-dimensional quality of them… these he saw by some sort of “direct perception,” although his human ego disavowed it. Still, his stories capture the “essence” of Black Magick more completely than any of the old Grimoires.
***
All
Art Forms are fundamental as vehicles for the Sinister. Genuine Art
always has an essence behind, something Dark and Mysterious making
both the artist and experiencer's mind nearly (or really) vibrate at
different frequencies and perceive other levels of existence and
other Things behind what normally meets the eye. Or behind certain
works of Art that at times do seem to really work as Nexions.
***
Well,
that's a good - and quite hard - question, and I have to confess that I
really can't make a reasoned distinction between different art forms;
cinema, writing, painting and musick have all been succesfully employed
to transmit the Sinister.
***
Sure! The Temple of THEM uses lots of them. Follow their lead and see
what you can do.
***
The effectiveness depends not on the art
form but on the receptivity of the experiencer.
***
As for forms of art to
transmit sinister ideas - art is subjective, so what speaks to some won't speak
to others. Therefore any medium which can expresses sinister intent is worthy
for the cause.
I think such an art form could be some living performance as engaging all, or almost all the senses of the audience. However, I haven’t watched such theatrical performances yet. It could be also some shot cinema production. I appreciate the art forms which engage more than one sense. The effect of all the five senses engaged could be really alchemical. As certain rituals can be.
***
I think such an art form could be some living performance as engaging all, or almost all the senses of the audience. However, I haven’t watched such theatrical performances yet. It could be also some shot cinema production. I appreciate the art forms which engage more than one sense. The effect of all the five senses engaged could be really alchemical. As certain rituals can be.
The Sinister and horror are linked, at least to some extent, but how do you view the connection between the Sinister and horror in its various forms, for example literature, movies, games, and so on? Could you name some of your greatest favorites from the world of horror?
The
connection seems essential. And while it seems essential, it will be.
Literature-wise, I think Stephen King must be at the top with such
profound dents in my experience of horror that I can't think of
anyone else except perhaps Lovecraft. Movies, King again, in
particular It. Game-wise Heavy Rain on the PS3 was one of the
most beautiful and sinister games I have ever seen and hands-down the
best experience of a game I have ever played.
***
I
think horror movies give people a chance to explore darker aspects of
their psyche in a comfortable environment.
The
best horror for me is psychological in nature. Anything that
mindfucks me when I am watching it. Alfred Hitchcock is a favorite
of mine. Rear Window, especially.
***
Horror
can be funny but I don't see real links with the Sinister. Exceptions
could be some vampire stories, Lovecraft, The Wicker Man when it
comes to movies (no real horror actually) Suspiria and other D.
Argento stuff was great. But apart from the mentioned exceptions,
I've lost much of my interest in horror literature and movies since
quite some years.
***
They
are bound to each other - both of them aims to show that dull, dreary
and boring everyday reality is just a dirty rag pulled over a
much more interesting and exciting reality.
Here comes my picks;
1) Movies: Los Sin Nombre, Martyrs, The Call of Cthulhu and Silent Hill.
2) Games: Silent Hill 2-4, Resident Evil 4 and Dead Space 1 & 2.
3) Literature: H. P. Lovecraft, Edgar Allan Poe, Robert Bloch and Clark Ashton Smith.
***
I think the link of the Sinister to horror will always be an important
identifier but it's important not to forget that the lead up, building blocks
that turn normal gradually into nasty and then erupt into hell are crucial to
frame the horror. If you just have sinister thing happen after sinister thing
(e.g. in Intelligent Evil) something is lost because there is no surprise, no
relent, no hope, no balance. You get used to being shocked, disgusted, creeped
out, sickened. The Sinister survives as a creature because there is balance
that demarcates it as Sinister as opposed to Other things. It would be
wonderful to watch a horror movie without knowing that it was one, such as when
I watched the incredible film Cloverfield. But we know to expect horror we just
don't know what kind, or how often. Directors provide music, identifiable
situations, slow motion, door opening, screams, pan shots, over the shoulder
shots, irony, all cues to get us ready for it. We expect it, it doesn't happen,
and then, it does. It's how it always goes. Life though, is a bit of a horror
movie, you just don't know or haven't got to that part where it all turns to
nasty vile shit. I'd name Life as one of my all time favourites.
***
Horror can push one’s limits – challenge
people’s concepts, break ‘barriers’.
I was always a fan of Clive Barker books, he seemed to be able to convey the sinister without constantly putting it in a position of good v evil and The Books of Blood was probably one of the closest writings I've seen to what it would be like to actually be infected by dark gods.
Guillermo del Toro has made some great horror of late (Pan's Labyrinth, Don't Be Afraid of the Dark), they touch upon the dark fairy tales that keep children awake and bring that fear into the adult realm, and I believe that childhood fear is a true fear, as children we can generally see and sense more clearly THEM around us, until we have it taught out of us (ie 'don't be silly there's nothing under the bed, that's just your imagination', etc.)
***
Horror
conveys the dark heart of people, shows a side of humanity and of the other
side that is rarely touched upon in other popular culture. I think horror is
very important. It opens questions in the minds of the viewer/reader and is a
jump off point for further discussion of the subjects touched upon ie. Morals,
the supernatural, victimization and our own limits.
I was always a fan of Clive Barker books, he seemed to be able to convey the sinister without constantly putting it in a position of good v evil and The Books of Blood was probably one of the closest writings I've seen to what it would be like to actually be infected by dark gods.
Guillermo del Toro has made some great horror of late (Pan's Labyrinth, Don't Be Afraid of the Dark), they touch upon the dark fairy tales that keep children awake and bring that fear into the adult realm, and I believe that childhood fear is a true fear, as children we can generally see and sense more clearly THEM around us, until we have it taught out of us (ie 'don't be silly there's nothing under the bed, that's just your imagination', etc.)
Also from the Masters of Horror series – Incident on and off A Mountain Road a great short movie that
without ruining it, manages to twist the roles and conveys a beautifully
sinister story.
***
I have no
favorites, though there are sometimes good examples for particular aspects of
the Sinister. Yet none is worthy to fully embrace it, were it a plot, or a
character.
H. P. Lovecraft is a household name in the occult circles, but there’s a whole lot of differing opinions as to the final value of his creations; to some, he was ‘just’ an original storyteller gifted with a vivid imagination, whereas for some, he was a grand conduit to The Other Side who provided a pathway to the mysteries uncharted by dreary and lacklustre occultists. What’s your opinion on Lovecraft?
Lovecraft
is a key figure in the foundations of THEM.
***
I
think he was touching on some things that were bigger than himself.
Some people are in touch with the Darker side of things naturally.
He's an example.
***
Whatever are the opinions and thoughts, and whatever the results of analysis and research about the Mythos in his literature, he was surely a different, deeper mind and a master in his Art. That is my opinion. Indeed, opinions about him and his work differ greatly, but few are left indifferent. I think he grasped and presenced at least part of something greater in his Art, may be not getting the meanings and distorting them via his kind of education, moral and thought, but there is a power in his writings. Then, some say he was just a writer, others an occultist, others a charlatan or mentally ill, who's to know. I've happen to read or hear of Necronomicon inspired rituals that managed to presence things, even from someone I knew years ago. It could be bullshits or just illusion, the mind is a powerful thing after all, and you never know what can come through it. Names are only names after all.
***
He
was adrift between his (dayside) scientific-objective ideal and his
(nightside) dream world, which tried - persistently, tirelessly - to
show him that the whole occidental, scientific, understanding of the
universe and of the forces of the universe, was a mere facade. In this
sense, I can wholeheartedly agree with most of what late Kenneth Grant
(1924 - 2011) has written on the subject.
***
***
You only resonate with what is within you.
***
I read a bit of
Lovecraft when I was young, and I always got the feeling that to him they were
not stories, and I think he created or recreated a great monster myth lacking
in modern culture.
***
Not unlike
Nietzsche, Lovecraft also became famous
postmortem which comes to show again and again how humanity appreciates its
prominent individuals. In fact humanity feeds on its most sensitive
individuals. It kills most of them prematurely to make saints of them
postmortem. Humanity as a biological matrix perpetuates via generation, while
the individuals serve only as the fuel for creating archetypes in the
collective psyche. I think Lovecraft was a poisonous morsel for the greedy
human beast. He has clearly shown its inadequacy when confronted with the
Numinous/Sinister. Now the fancy archetypes he created have some life of their
own, probably having their real unconscious analogues. And they are definitely
sinister. Yet his mastery as a writer was in the ambience, rather than in the
narrative itself.
